Most readers probably know that the RTS genre did not begin with the orcs v. humans conflict (seem familiar?) of Blizzard's original Warcraft, ancestor of the MMORPG du jour, WoW. Instead, it probably began with a 1992 DOS/VGA game called Dune II, based on Frank Herbert's Dune. (Just for kicks, see Justin Hall's review.) Imho, there are a limited set of really popular, extremely detailed virtual worlds to choose from, and Arrakis is probably third in the sci-fi realm behind the two Star Thingees. And, to put my neck out, Dune's literary roots make it a more interesting world than the Lucasfilm and Paramount front-runners. Interesting to wonder, then, if we might need to wait awhile for an MMORPG where the spice flows, based on the litigation battle in Herbert Limited Partnership v. Electronic Arts Inc., et al.
The plaintiff is HLP, which owns the IP rights for Herbert's novels, and the defendants are EA, Sony, Random House, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc., who have all created, sold, or printed materials involving the Dune universe for two Dune II-sequel games for the PS1 and PC: Dune 2000 and Emporer: Battle for Dune. It seems HLP is claiming a standard array of trademark, copyright, and unfair competition claims based upon the allegation that the EA Dune games (and the strategy guides for those games) exceeded the scope of the IP rights granted by certain licenses. This opinion isn't too interesting on the IP front, it's simply a grant of a motion to transfer venue from New York to California, or as, the Honorable Victor Marrero put it "Defendants now ask this Court, borrowing from the advanced techniques of the works at issue, to function as a space-folding navigator and transport this case to the Northern District of California." (SDNY = the Spacing Guild -- that pwnz.) But it is interesting to get a glimpse at the legal partitioning of the IP rights to Paul Muadib's adopted homeworld.
Also interesting are the relative financial means of HLP vs. the defendants they're suing: "HLP's average annual revenues for each of the past ten years have been under $ 750,000. Each Defendant's annual revenue for 2003 exceeded $ 1 billion." As the Judge Marrerro notes, "the smallest Defendant's annual revenue appears to have exceeded HLP's annual revenue by a factor of more than one thousand in 2003." But while HLP garnered the court's sympathy on that count, the case has nevertheless been transferred off to California, home of EA.
Not only did Dune 2 come before Warcraft, it was a much better game. Loads.
I also agree that Dune's is a very compelling universe. I want to play a MMORPG where I can live for thousands of years slowing evolving into a paranoid despotic sand worm. There's a hero's journey you don't see every day. Also the devs wouldn't need to come up with some strained explanation for nonperma-death - the Duncans took care of that nicely.
Jihaaaaaaad. Did I mention that those books get strange to the point of distraction?
It is always too bad to see legal difficulties inhibit new exciting content. I know, how about another movie or miniseries, you know, try for a couple every decade.
Posted by: Staarkhand | Jul 14, 2004 at 16:54
I can't imagine a level-grind architecture staying true to the Dune books. To me, the dune books were about a) out-maneuvering opponents politically, and b) the ramifications of prescience.
Political maneuvering - You'd need to produce a system that hindered or prevented direct PvP combat, but encouraged indirect actions, like hiring assasins, or forming political ties with NPCs and other PCs. You'd also have to deal with the fact that not everyone can be a member of the ruling class, which is what the Dune books focussed on.
Prescience - This is difficult to do in a game with other players, since they tend to mess up any prophetic spice-dreams produced by the computer's AI. However, the dreams could be used to convey enemy locations and their actions (at the present or near-past, but not the future).
Of course, if these problems could be solved, such a Dune virtual world WOULD be interesting because it WOULDN'T be a clone of all the other MMORPGs. It would be some 1st person, some space combat, and some RTS (although the "real-time" part might mean that players would order their troops to move and wait a few days for them to get there).
Posted by: Mike Rozak | Jul 15, 2004 at 02:43
Mike,
Then again you could just use the "universe" to draw your fiction from and the game could have pretty much nothing to do with the novels except sharing the fictional setting. Then you make it move as slow as molasses through the universe's timeline, so things don't change that much and you can keep costs in line and players from freaking out - plus that's one movie you can't rewind, so you really don't want to rush the timeline. The model seems to be working for some!
Posted by: Andres Ferraro (ex: DivineShadow) | Jul 15, 2004 at 04:12
"Instead, it probably began with a 1992 DOS/VGA game called Dune II,"
I think the word 'probably' was used as a prepartory defence against this, but the first RTS was the very obscure 'Herzog Zwei', not 'Dune II'.
Posted by: Factory | Jul 15, 2004 at 04:34
Oh except the link already said it.. oh well.. :(
Posted by: Factory | Jul 15, 2004 at 04:36
I was re-reading the books a while back which made me long for Dune II again. I managed to find a copy on the net pretty easily (though it is not flawless, it crashes occasionally).
Turns out there is a pretty vibrant user community out there creating levels and even campaigns for the Dune II game.
As far as an MMORPG based on this universe is Concerned... It would be tricky, but levelgrinding does indeed seem inappropriate. MMORTS? PErhaps with a faction system, and a form of levelling that allows you to build different units/buildings as you progress.
Posted by: Rolf Remie | Jul 15, 2004 at 05:01
intresting
Posted by: jetflash | Jul 15, 2004 at 05:46
Funny how these things go - I was idly scribbling backstory for a MMORPG that will never happen and thinking about Dune (the film and the game more than the books) only the other night. Seems to me that the times are ripe for drug crazed religious space desert warriors. I'm in!
Star Trek doesn't even vaguely interest me (amongst other things, way too structured and faceless). Way way way too geeky too.
Star Wars could have been great but has been done to death and SWG just doesn't look that exciting. I used to love the Privateer games and am hoping Jump to Lightspeed brings a little of that to SWG. Seems to me it will be make or break. If it's good, it'll catapult the game forwards with the MMORPG forming a background to the space expansion. If bad, SWG will never recover. The 'Jump to Lightspeed' name is distilled hype and if it doesn't deliver players will be nearly 2 years into SWG and bitter about their disappointments.
Dune would be a *very* engaging virtual world. It is richly detailed and has an exotic feel to it which is independant of the sci-fi element. It's also relatively fresh whereas both the Star thingies are getting a bit overdone. Dune II was a great game which I spent hours playing. Hope they settle their differences quick and find more constructive uses for their time.
Posted by: Al | Jul 15, 2004 at 06:39
Dune resonates with readers over the long term, I think, for the same reason that Lord of the Rings still does: both of these literary creations were snapshots of interesting times at a particular moment in a vast and detailed history.
I wonder if it's not this sense of some deep developmental logic behind a fictional world that makes it so fascinating. Dune, LOTR, Gormenghast, Islandia, even Star Wars and Star Trek -- one thing all these fictional universes have in common is *history*. I suspect these works survive and prosper because they impart a sense of historical realism. There were people and events long before the current action, you feel, and there'll be people and events following the current action. That sense of historical realism is a powerful tool for suspending disbelief in a secondary universe.
Although Herbert didn't explicitly develop a creation myth as Tolkien did, he still gave you the feeling in Dune that the galaxy at the time of Shaddam IV had been populated for quite a long time, and that a bunch of powerful groups had been jockeying for position for almost as long:
* the Great Houses (Landsraad)
* the Bene Gesserit
* the Spacing Guild
* the Tleilaxu
These would almost appear to be custom-made for factions in a MMORPG... but is that all that's needed for a successful game? How can a Dune (Middle-Earth, Star Wars, etc.) MMORPG generate the sense of being a participant in a grand history that makes the popular fictional universes so attractive in the first place?
Posted by: Flatfingers | Jul 15, 2004 at 13:15
Other sci-fi possiblities:
Ringworld by Larry Niven
The Culture series by Iain M Banks (I wanna be a wise-cracking AI system!)
Dr. Who
Flash Gordon anyone? Nice retro "Mad Scientist" style game. COH might have this niche taken.
A few compelling universes are out, in my opinon.
Heinlien and Azimov for example, as they are to disjointed/contridicting to make a full universe.
Posted by: Russell Conner | Jul 15, 2004 at 13:34
You're limiting yourselves to Western science fiction. The Japanese have the whole Universal Century universe of Gundam, which has a detailed history akin to the two Star franchises. And Bandai is already developing a Gundam MMORPG for Japanese, Korean, and English-speaking audiences.
Posted by: Young Freud | Jul 15, 2004 at 21:19
Personally i thought the original Planet of the Apes would make for a good world. Though i suppose it would work similar to any post apocolyptic world would.
I'm wondering what the definition of RTS is. As i usually considered the original populace to be a RTS of sorts.
Posted by: Ralph Scott | Jul 16, 2004 at 11:49
Absoultey, a Dune MMO game would have all the elements to sustain interest. It's its own universe. Let's make this happen.
bi la kaifa
Posted by: Sherlock | Jul 16, 2004 at 15:19
Thanks for the thoughts everyone -- and for the brainstorming. The more I think about it, the more I'm not sure Dune would be 3d in line in terms of popular sci-fi worlds, but the weirdness and the depth certainly make it one of the most interesting sci-fi worlds out there.
Having David Lynch direct the first movie version was appropriate, though the SF channel miniseries was much closer, I think, to what Herbert was trying to evoke.
Btw, on SF/fantasy writers, this is a cool 20 hour lecture series in mp3.
http://lrc.lib.umn.edu/Engl3020.htm
Posted by: greglas | Jul 18, 2004 at 22:10
Dune: Generations was a Dune MMOG in the making back in 2001-2002. Unfortunately, it never made it to market as the company making it, Cryo, was shut down. It was to have been a MMORTS.
Posted by: Soukyan | Jul 22, 2004 at 07:48
Many thanks -- somehow I missed it...
More info here:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/dunegenerations/
Posted by: greglas | Jul 22, 2004 at 11:08